转录文件 — British Vogue - Naomi Campbell Meets Vivienne Westwood（约17分钟，本人对谈）
本地源: 04_视频\B_采访与纪录\01_本人采访_BritishVogue_NaomiCampbell对谈\Naomi Campbell Meets Vivienne Westwood  ｜ British Vogue [Vl5IVo3EpCk].mp4
转录: faster-whisper base（本地离线，英文语音识别），2026-09-11，SUB-WESTWOOD
识别语言: en (p=1.00) | 音频时长 16.8 分钟 | 处理耗时 1.5 分钟
注: 机器转录，可能有误听；引用站内时以时间戳核对原声为准。

[00:00] I might as well just make a statement to you lot then in that case, which is that I want to be able to get my message across.
[00:09] It's so important that something's got to happen this year, or else we're too late.
[00:15] Vivian, I can't believe I'm sitting with you. I've known you since I'm 16 years old.
[00:28] It's amazing. It's a blessing to be sitting with you.
[00:31] It is Naomi.
[00:33] I just remember you would sit, you took us, I think Kate might have been with me actually.
[00:37] We went to tea with you, criterion, because we were hustling you to let us in the archives.
[00:43] I remember that was it, yeah.
[00:45] I know if we went to tea and then you sat us down and gave us a talking to you about, you know, being conscious in the world.
[00:53] That had a big impact on me, because I mean it was about around the time that I started working with Nelson Mandela in South Africa.
[01:01] So it was all new to me still.
[01:04] They will have these posh words for it now, like philanthropy.
[01:07] For me, it was just like, you do it because you want to do it.
[01:11] In those days, my activism was about human rights mostly.
[01:16] My generation was politicized by the hippies, and punk was a reaction against the fact that the people who caused the Vietnam War were still running the world.
[01:29] And it was like, we are not going to accept any of your taboos or your values at all.
[01:35] All activists, you, everybody, were all driven by the same motive.
[01:41] We cannot stand human suffering.
[01:44] We can't stand the mismanagement of the world.
[01:47] That, you know, the people in power are just well right now.
[01:52] We suffer climate change, the end of civilization and the extinction of the human race.
[01:57] It's the rotten financial system that's the cause of the whole thing.
[02:02] It takes money from the poor and gives it to the rich.
[02:06] That's essentially what it's all about.
[02:08] And therefore you've got this incredible gap and it creates climate change because it's raping the earth and it creates poverty.
[02:17] And so the thing is that I think politicians are criminals because poverty causes crime.
[02:25] And in fact, it's very true.
[02:28] An employment causes crime, lack of education.
[02:31] Oh, it is homelessness of crime.
[02:33] Homelessness causes crime.
[02:35] When did you stop referring to yourself as a designer and only as an activist?
[02:40] Yes, I never stopped referring to myself as a designer.
[02:45] I don't know, it's just that most of my designs at the moment require these graphics all the time.
[02:52] You know, because I'm an activist.
[02:54] And so, no, I'm a fashion designer and an activist.
[02:59] And this is my career and each help the other.
[03:03] And it's very, very important to look great if you want to make a point because then people I think will listen to you more.
[03:12] Look, I'll just talk about Edward because Edward is why we're here talking to each other.
[03:21] I showed him something.
[03:23] I showed him that I'd made these cards because I'm an activist and I'd done so many graphics.
[03:30] I thought I'm going to put them on a set of playing cards.
[03:33] And I did and I looked at it and I realised that if you connect the dots of all these 50-something cards,
[03:40] then you have a complete strategy dot by dot of how to save the world, honestly.
[03:46] I had one card that said what's good for the economy is good for the planet.
[03:53] And so I made another card which said what's bad for the economy is bad for the planet because this is true.
[03:59] And by that, and just looking at a few more dots, I realised that the problem was rock dollar.
[04:07] That's what that rock dollar is about there.
[04:10] The crash is going to happen in ten years, whether there would be climate change or not.
[04:15] Because it's bring on the debt, let's increase the debt, we're just living on debt.
[04:18] Trump, bring it on, more debt, richer we get, can't go on forever, it's going to crash in ten years.
[04:24] We are definitely in a very serious global warming climate change disaster.
[04:32] And it's like they're coming consistently, like we used to hear of things when we were younger.
[04:38] But it was like maybe once a year there'd be something.
[04:42] It's like every month or twice a month in some part of the world that innocent people are suffering from a natural disaster.
[04:51] What can people do out there to play their part in saving this planet?
[04:56] I want to say the first thing is that Edward did the right thing because he put me and you together.
[05:02] That's something people can do. They can talk to people and get people to join in the conversation.
[05:09] It's not enough to just live the life you've got already.
[05:14] You've got to stick to the three hours, reduce, reuse, recycle.
[05:20] That's the last thing you should do with reuse.
[05:23] So that's it, so you reduce, you cut the clothes, you're buying, you buy quality, not quantity.
[05:30] Make sure you want to keep on wearing it.
[05:33] Go to work in an evening dress if you want.
[05:36] At the same time we need to get the government to say that public transport is free.
[05:42] That needs to go together with it.
[05:44] Nobody in London needs a car.
[05:47] It's not helpful to community at all.
[05:50] Community is completely broken down.
[05:52] The only person who needs a car really in London is the taxi.
[05:56] I'm talking about we have to be really serious, radical, radical change by the end of this century.
[06:03] There'll only be 1 billion people left.
[06:06] And this map is a reflection of that.
[06:09] That's what it would be with only 1 billion people left.
[06:13] That's red is uninhabitable.
[06:15] I put on top of this bag, I put my old slogan from Let It Rock.
[06:21] Too fast to live, too young to die.
[06:24] The youth too fast to live is reusing everything up.
[06:27] And it's too young to die.
[06:29] That's my pamphlet telling you all about this.
[06:32] This is me when I'm four years old.
[06:34] And it says, by less.
[06:36] And that's what I'm wearing now.
[06:38] It's by less is my teacher.
[06:40] Love it.
[06:41] But talking about culture.
[06:43] How do you see the culture that from the 80s to now through the 90s?
[06:50] How do you feel that young people are today?
[06:54] I want to start with Greta Thunberg.
[06:57] Because she's got her spurges and the reason she is doing what she's doing.
[07:02] Is that she could not understand why when she learned about climate change
[07:07] and the fact that the house is on fire,
[07:10] why she couldn't understand why her parents hadn't told her,
[07:13] or why nobody was doing anything.
[07:16] And so she said, if I didn't have as purchase,
[07:19] I would have joined a committee, but I didn't, it's all I had.
[07:22] And so I went and sat down and protested.
[07:25] And then she's just become the world hero.
[07:29] What she's done, she's made everybody in the world.
[07:32] Well, not perhaps everybody, but everything is changing.
[07:35] It's all ramped up.
[07:37] Passion is ramped up.
[07:39] People are beginning to think, I've got to be responsible.
[07:43] I've got to do something.
[07:45] She's doing a wonderful job, all over.
[07:47] People say, have you talked to me?
[07:49] I don't need to talk to her.
[07:50] Everything she says is perfect.
[07:52] She just says, listen to the scientists.
[07:54] I mean, I think.
[07:55] I'm incredible what she's doing.
[07:56] I agree with you.
[07:57] Yeah.
[07:58] Yeah.
[07:59] And she's made a wonderful job.
[08:00] I'm incredible what you're doing.
[08:01] You've been doing this for as long as I've known you.
[08:04] And that's why I think when you said to me,
[08:06] live in, you will get support.
[08:08] I think that's why I will get support.
[08:10] I think the things are, the passion is ramping.
[08:12] Oh, we all know that when you get behind something
[08:17] and you're passionate about it.
[08:20] Well, I don't know.
[08:21] I've been trying for a long time now.
[08:23] Yeah, but you've been saying this for how long?
[08:25] Well, one really may have taken it seriously, but now they are.
[08:28] We don't know how much time there is left, really.
[08:30] Do we?
[08:31] It could happen.
[08:32] The tipping point could happen tomorrow.
[08:34] Nobody knows.
[08:35] The tipping point could happen tomorrow.
[08:36] No.
[08:37] Once it happens, it's not inevitable.
[08:39] That's when everyone gets a show.
[08:41] Obviously, young people are always more idealistic
[08:46] than more cynical older people.
[08:49] And therefore they have passion to try to do things.
[08:53] And I think that's great.
[08:55] But let me ask you something.
[08:56] Easy.
[08:57] Do you remember the first time we met?
[09:01] I think we met when you came to do the show
[09:04] where you had the painted smoke.
[09:06] But no, isn't it?
[09:07] No, Vivian.
[09:08] I fell down before that show.
[09:10] I did one of your shows in London and then you moved to Paris.
[09:14] Okay.
[09:15] You hadn't moved to Paris yet because I remember it was a big deal
[09:18] that Vivian West was leaving London.
[09:20] Because you all left.
[09:22] You John left.
[09:23] You left.
[09:24] Everyone was leaving.
[09:25] And when you left it was like, oh London doesn't support
[09:27] their artists and their designers.
[09:29] I remember that.
[09:30] They didn't.
[09:31] It took me years to get the designer of the year.
[09:34] The recognition that you truly deserve.
[09:37] Well, yeah.
[09:38] But do you know how I got it because all the other designers said,
[09:41] you're trying to give us this award for the second time.
[09:44] And you haven't even given it to Vivian yet.
[09:46] Today spoke up for you.
[09:47] Yeah.
[09:48] They said, we are not accepting it.
[09:50] Yeah, it was a sad state of affairs our fashion world at that time.
[09:53] In those days, the British fashion council hardly existed.
[09:58] I don't think it did exist at all.
[10:00] And London did not support its designers.
[10:04] Can I ask you something?
[10:05] Yes.
[10:06] When I fell down.
[10:07] Yeah.
[10:08] Were you worried?
[10:10] Well, you were all right Naomi.
[10:12] You were all right.
[10:14] And I know you were kind of issuing bravado already.
[10:19] I think you were annoyed and a bit hurt.
[10:22] I'm worried.
[10:23] I was embarrassed.
[10:24] Yeah.
[10:25] Well, if that was it was.
[10:26] I was embarrassed.
[10:27] I was embarrassed because I also was not the right time of the month.
[10:32] A month or four.
[10:34] And I felt like I should have practiced more.
[10:39] And that comes from my training of dancing.
[10:41] I should have practiced more.
[10:43] Because there's a...
[10:44] I know how to walk in your shoes now.
[10:46] There's a trick to walk in your shoes.
[10:47] Let me tell you, stop.
[10:49] The reason you fell is because you had these rubber ties.
[10:52] Yes!
[10:53] And your thighs caught together.
[10:55] And so you wiggled on the shoe.
[10:57] And you only got to wiggle slightly and you're over.
[11:00] I know.
[11:01] When I tell people they were rubber ties, they're like,
[11:03] what?
[11:04] I said, I was wearing rubber ties.
[11:06] I also feel though that I did put too much weight on the front.
[11:13] No, on my heel.
[11:14] On the back.
[11:15] On the heel.
[11:16] And I should have walked more with the tiptoe on my tippy toe a bit more.
[11:21] And I realised that after.
[11:23] But the most important thing is that I said to myself,
[11:26] get up and keep going.
[11:27] That's all you have to do.
[11:28] Get up and keep going.
[11:29] Anyway, I'll tell you what also happened is that I went backstage immediately
[11:34] after you got off the catwalk.
[11:36] On the Papsa was backstage, but I went to you immediately.
[11:39] And you were lying on the floor between the rails.
[11:41] And you said, Vivian, I'm going back on that catwalk now.
[11:45] But if I fall down again, I am not getting up.
[11:48] And you come and get me, if I fall down again.
[11:51] And then we gave you a stick.
[11:55] Yeah.
[11:56] And you did not use the stick.
[11:58] You went down the catwalk with the stick like this instead just to show
[12:01] that you could not fall.
[12:03] Yeah.
[12:04] Okay.
[12:05] I remember the next day we were all linda was driving a little convertible.
[12:10] Many, I think.
[12:11] And we were all in her box wagon panda.
[12:14] And we were all in there.
[12:16] It was red.
[12:17] We were jazz men and K and Christie all piled in.
[12:21] And we'd gone to W.A. Smith in Paris and bought the British papers.
[12:25] And we were just howling.
[12:27] Because they had step one step.
[12:29] They think they had them like planned out.
[12:31] Here she's up.
[12:32] Now she's not.
[12:33] Oh, she's down.
[12:34] And we were howling.
[12:35] And I was just like.
[12:36] But then you know it was really beautiful when you fell.
[12:39] It was like a gazelle fall.
[12:41] And it was fun.
[12:42] Did I ever tell you this?
[12:43] I don't know if I told you this.
[12:45] Afterwards, I'm not going to say who.
[12:47] There's a couple of people.
[12:49] Designers asked me if I would fall for them.
[12:53] Oh, yeah.
[12:54] Yeah.
[12:55] And I was like.
[12:56] Oh, my God.
[12:57] Why would you want me to fall?
[12:58] I necessarily said.
[12:59] Press.
[13:00] Yes, I know.
[13:01] Press that you got.
[13:02] I know.
[13:03] But it wasn't planned.
[13:05] That was what happened because it happened.
[13:07] Yes.
[13:08] I thought that was like.
[13:10] I don't know what they thought.
[13:11] And they asked me if I would do it.
[13:13] And I said.
[13:14] Absolutely not.
[13:15] It goes against everything that I stand for.
[13:17] Yeah.
[13:18] I'm not falling purposely.
[13:20] If it's an accident.
[13:21] And many accidents on the runway,
[13:23] top fell down, skirt fell off,
[13:25] or slipped off or whatever.
[13:27] But not to fall down to deliberately.
[13:30] No, I'm not doing that.
[13:31] So I refused.
[13:32] I don't understand why they will do that.
[13:34] Because that would make them somehow for me feel like.
[13:36] We're a second-class designer.
[13:38] We have to take an idea from somewhere else.
[13:41] I was quite poor even in those days.
[13:43] I didn't pay any of you very much.
[13:45] So you can take it for granted that I didn't pay you to fall down.
[13:49] Of course, I wouldn't take another one.
[13:51] But yeah.
[13:52] But that's even more so that the testament to you.
[13:55] You're a special person in the sense of.
[13:58] That's who you are.
[13:59] Yeah.
[14:00] Like why changing conformists?
[14:01] Who you are, you've stuck true to who you are.
[14:03] And everyone knows that and loves that.
[14:05] That's why these other designers will defend and say she deserves this award.
[14:09] Because it's true.
[14:10] Yeah, but do remember that what I said that punk.
[14:13] Also, this was my motive.
[14:15] It was to make the world a better place and to stop suffering.
[14:18] You know, a little baby born.
[14:20] And he's just born sky high.
[14:22] Or somebody, you know, who's just suffered so much.
[14:26] They don't have any chance to recognize their potential.
[14:29] They don't self-educate.
[14:30] They don't know how to do that.
[14:32] I never felt.
[14:33] I never felt any fear from when I will see the punks.
[14:39] I just knew they were kind.
[14:41] I will see how they would take pictures with all the tourists.
[14:44] They were monument of King's Road.
[14:46] And then when they were not there anymore, it was very strange.
[14:49] What's happened to them?
[14:51] I think it was the 137 I used to go home on to get to Stratton.
[14:56] Yeah.
[14:57] And I'd change in Oxford Street.
[14:58] And we'd go by Sloan Street and I'd see all the punks with the hand.
[15:02] It was like, oh my God.
[15:04] You know, the first time I ever saw when it was a big deal
[15:07] because it was like the spikes and everything.
[15:09] And so then, no, to meet you.
[15:12] And then to meet Malcolm, I was just like, I can't believe it.
[15:16] It's like, it's legendary.
[15:18] You didn't see the King's Road when the hippies were around.
[15:20] No.
[15:21] They were incredible.
[15:22] Oh, God.
[15:23] Yes, that was.
[15:24] All of Saturday, you know, driving down in this big car,
[15:27] all painted with sebrus stripes.
[15:30] And, oh, it was amazing.
[15:32] Mr. Freedom.
[15:33] Mr. Freedom was great.
[15:35] That was my first discovery.
[15:38] I dressed like a space princess in those days.
[15:41] It was amazing.
[15:42] I'd love to see my pictures.
[15:43] That's when I got my spikey hair together, even then.
[15:45] So you had it then.
[15:46] Yeah, yeah.
[15:47] Well, also, I want to say thank you,
[15:49] because you've always been so supportive to everything I've done
[15:52] with fashion freely.
[15:53] Oh, wow.
[15:54] Including being on the runway.
[15:56] You've walked the runway.
[15:57] Do you remember you and Grace and Tracy?
[15:59] I don't see you.
[16:00] I know that your support's there.
[16:02] And your love for me.
[16:03] And my love for you is there.
[16:05] There's no words in last or time that comes between.
[16:10] You are so sweet and kind.
[16:12] And I haven't seen you for ages.
[16:14] And it's just so lovely.
[16:16] Thank you.
[16:17] Thank you so much, Vivian.
[16:18] That was amazing.
[16:19] Oh, yes.
[16:20] I agree.
[16:21] I agree.
[16:22] I enjoyed myself so much.
[16:23] Thank you so much.
[16:24] Thank you.
[16:25] Thank you.
[16:26] Yeah.
[16:27] Oh, really?
[16:28] That was so nice.
[16:29] God, what a thing that you live in the world.
[16:33] It's incredible.
[16:34] Thank you.